As my local readers know, there is a Catalina deal at Acme this week that is turning out to be an amazing moneymaker for many. I have received quite a few emails asking me the shelf prices of items (frankly? I have no idea) and quite a few comments about deals that they have received based on shelf prices.
For the record....I will never delete a comment that talks about a deal based on shelf prices. I'm just not going to POST a deal based on shelf prices. I know, it's a distinction without a difference, but it's my personal comfort level...so shoot me!
If you are new to couponing (or never heard about this "shelf price vs. sale price" thang), you may be thinking "What in the world are you talking about Min?"
It's very simple....
Catalina deals are monitored by the Catalina Marketing Company. Catalina deals are sponsored by the vendor (General Mills, ConAgra, etc) In most cases, they have direct access to the "everyday price" of items at each store. So when they decide to run a Catalina deal at a store, it is based on the everyday price that they have in their database (that IS constantly updated).
But then the store decides to run a sale because of the Catalina deal. They think that by reducing the price, they can move more product (this is Econ 101 territory). BUT the Catalina may be working on the shelf price, not the sale price.
Min - my head is spinning. WHAT are you talking about?
Simply put:
Let's say that the advertised deal is to Save $10 On Your Next Order When You Buy $25. And let's say that Hebrew National Franks are on sale for $3, but you have heard "through the grapevine" that it is working on the "regular price" of $7 per package.
So if you go by the sale prices, you should buy 9 Hebrew National Franks ($27) to get the $10 Catalina.
But if you go by the "shelf price", you only need to buy 4 packages (shelf price of $28, sale price of $12) to get your Catalina.
Are you kidding? Why wouldn't I work the deal on shelf price then?
Why? Because I believe that working a deal based on "shelf price" goes against the "spirit" of the deal. Call me a "Goody Two Shoes"...I'm fine with that.
But there are other factors at play...
Let's say that Swiss Miss is included in the deal and the ad says "all varieties". You are trying to work a deal based on shelf prices, but through a programming glitch with the Catalina company, the Diet Swiss Miss with marshmallows wasn't included in the list to trigger the catalina. You go to the Customer Service desk to demand your Catalina because the deal didn't work...but you were trying to work the deal on the shelf price of $2.29 rather than the advertised price of $1. If you were working the deal on sale prices? They would force-print a Catalina without blinking an eye. If you were working the deal on shelf prices? The CS rep would have every right to tell you to pound sand.
I stopped in to Acme yesterday to grab the ad for next week and ended up talking to one of the "leads" about the deal this week. The Hebrew National deal that I mentioned IS working (as are a few other deals mentioned in the comments of this post). She told me that she has had people screaming at them when their Catalina didn't print because they were working a deal on shelf prices and not sale prices. I assured them that they didn't get that info from me.
And you know what? That is the way that I like it.
When you work the deals according to the "spirit" of the deal (working off advertised prices), things tend to generally work out. And when they DON'T work out? You have a reasonable expectation of getting everything fixed with just a simple comparing of your receipt to the ad. Working the deals on shelf prices? Yeah - good luck with that!
I mean - seriously - next week Acme is going to PAY me to take Totinos pizza rolls out of the store, even when I work on sale prices. How greedy do I need to be?
Kathy
I have actually been thinking a lot about this. Isn't possible that acme knows it is on shelf price and wants to reduce their prices on these items not to move more product but to leverage the deal and attract more customers? I simply saw it as buy $25 worth of product as opposed to spend $25.
Just curious - do you have similar feelings about the free candy from rite aid last week that was generating mystery That was clearly not the spirit of the deal.
Kathy
Oops meant to say generating mystery UP rewards. Also, I thing the bigger moral question here is the one you raise of greed. I think a lot about that when I find myself loaned crazy amounts of stuff in my cart. It is one thing to take advantage of a great deal and be smart with your family budget,it is another to be greedy.
Mindi Cherry
The "Mystery +UPR" last week was a different story, in my mind. Did I know why it was printing? Nope - I only knew that it was. Considering how many times I have received a Catalina in a grocery store for a deal that I didn't even know was active, I looked at the "Mystery +UPR" the same way.
But with working a deal on shelf prices, the fact that it doesn't always work for every included product or, in the case of Acme, it works on the "knock down price" for some, the shelf prices for others and the sale price for others....it makes me think that it working on Shelf is often a glitch..especially when there have been deals that worked on shelf for the first 2 days of the sale, but by Monday or Tuesday it was working on sale prices.
I also look at Register Rewards at Walgreens the same way. Their system is set up that you can't "roll" Register Rewards for the exact same product (so you can use a RR that you got from a Pampers Deal to pay for a Dove deal and still get a RR back, but you can't use a Pampers to pay for a Pampers and still get a RR). Every once in a while, you hear about a "glitch" and the RRs ARE rolling for the same product. Then it gets posted on a few sites, people start doing the deal and within a day or so, Wags "catches" it and fixes the glitch.
That's why I also won't post about the "Wags RR glitches"
Mary Kay
How greedy do I need to be?
That's a perfect question Mindy. There are so many great legitimate deals out there. It kills me that people cheat to get stuff cheaper/for free when there are so many fair ways to score great deals. Thank you for the moral stands that you take. Your values line up with the values I was raised with and the values I am trying to pass on to my family. Not only is it the right thing to do morally but it also will allow companies to continue to offer great deals to those that put in the time and effort to pursue them.
Shannon
The last few ads havewording that the $25 worth of product is calculated AFTER man. coupons, making this even more of a dilemma. I have not experienced a clerk enforcing this yet, but they are certainly within their right to do so.
Mindi Cherry
Yep! and I asked the woman about that as well. They know that the "after coupons" wording is inaccurate and that it works on the before-coupon price.
What they are doing is covering themselves in case the Catalina doesn't print.
BUT - as long as you are getting the right items, the Catalina WILL print and once that thing shoots out of the machine, they have to give it to you. Matter of fact, I have heard stories of employees at grocery stores getting fired for refusing to fork over a Catalina!
Liz
the stories of grocery store employees getting fired for not giving your your catalinas IS true.
i worked at Lucky as a box girl, in high school (Lucky eventually became Albertson). it was very clear, if a cashier was caught with catalinas, even if they got them out of the trash, they were fired on the spot. no questions asked.
Gwen
I've had this discussion with myself before.
In my opinion, it takes so much extra work to calculate your deals based on shelf price. It's not advertised, so you have to go scope out your store and either come back after you've put your deal together, or figure it out right there in the store. All that for a deal that might not even work! I'd rather figure out my deal at home, where the prices are provided for me and I know it will work.
Months and months ago Weis was running a catalina deal on Betty Crocker baking products. One where there were levels of $ catalinas, depending on how much stuff you bought.
This was back before I knew catalinas sometimes print on shelf prices. I had planned out my deal using the sale price and every coupon I could find. I was so surprised when I got a $10 catalina instead of the $5 one I was expecting. In that scenario, it's just a bonus surprise and made my deal even better!
Suzy
Is the before coupon calculation pretty standard, or does it vary by store? My Harris Teeter store has a deal where you buy $20 worth of GM products, and you get $20 back for future orders. I'm trying to find out if that $20 is before coupons or after. I guess I will call ahead to be sure, but wanted to ask about anyone else's experiences.
MissyLiz
Mindi,
Love your ethics posts! Its so refreshing to not see someone encouraging trying to take advantage of things like RR glitches, etc. I am a cvs manager and dishonest couponers drive me insane. I have very regular customers who walk out of my store on a weekly basis with shopping carts of stuff that they paid pennies for and did perfectly legitimate deals. For every one of those people though there is someone else trying to exploit the system. The same people come in week after week attempting to use multiple manufacturers' coupons on one item, expired coupons, coupons for the wrong item/size, etc. Lately it seems as though this second group is growing and driving me bonkers!
Sheena
I feel the same way Mindy. That is why I believe many stores are being more "suspect" us coupon users. We see a good thing, and go waaaaaaaay overboard. I believe in the expression, that too much of a good thing is bad.
One can find themselves obsessed and in turn neglecting other important areas in their lives...I know I did.
Lisa
Thanks for posting Mindi.. I had some friends telling me I was crazy for not doing shelf prices, but I get nervous and find it easier just doing it the right way. Also I have been told not all ACME stores will work on Shelf prices, I know 2 people that have tried at my local store and it didn't work. I shop with 2 yr old twins so I want to be in and out with as little hassle as possible.
Dana
Hi Mindi! I kind of think you're talking to me with this post..maybe yeah?
First let me say that I am a longtime reader of your site and I think you, your blog, and your love of wine, coach handbags and standing on soapboxes every now and then is fabulous. For you to even write a post that could have possibly started from a comment I made about free sausage is an honor!
Of course I think we disagree in this area a bit, but I also think we both enjoy a good grown-up debate. In the case of Acme (unlike walgreens) I have never heard of an item working the first 2 days and then being "fixed". Acme's catalinas work off of shelf prices and I don't think that figuring out deals based on shelf prices is "cheating".
Because we allow Acme to track everything we buy (via our supercard) we get the benefit of their "supercard" prices. Anyone coming in off the street who choses NOT to use a supercard can still get that $10 cat...but they do not get the "supercard" price for the items that they buy.
I agree this is contrary to the "spirit" of the sale...however there are some managers in acme that will actually help you do it this way. (there's a comment on LRWC about one doing that this week) So I think it's legit, and no where near as "dirty" as other tricks....rolling RRs etc. I think it's helpful for readers to understand why it's like this and how they can get the most out of their grocery money.
If you respond, please go easy on me...I am a big fan and if you make me sad, I'll have to go eat a batch of free brownies!
Dana
http://www.ihadacoupon.com
Mindi Cherry
Hey Dana!
First of all, I will never scold anyone for working a deal on shelf prices (which is why I allow those comments to stand)...but since it isn't something that I am comfortable with, I don't want to post those deals. I know that Cindy often posts deals based on shelf prices and if she has a manager at her local Acme that works with her to promote those deals, then that is great for her.
My store, while wonderful, has major problems with shelf-clearers and people who are always trying to "get one over on them". I see them every week and they know about me and this site. In order to continue my good relationship with them (seriously - they often will often do "backflips" for me), I think it falls on me to make sure that they know I only promote couponing "by the letter". I hate that so many unethical people have started using coupons that it now takes me LONGER to use self-checkout (because you can't scan your own coupons) and that, even though the cashiers know that I am being honest, the "eye in the sky" needs to see them scrutinize every.single.coupon
Hennyway -
The "working for a few days, then not working" used to happen all the time, especially with ConAgra Catalina deals (although I haven't heard of it happening in over a year).
Lisa brought up a good point as well. If you check some of the online coupon forums, you will see people talking about the deals not working the same at each store.
Just out of curiosity (because I honestly don't know the answer)...are you sure you still get the Cat even if you don't scan a Supercard?
But I guess, for me, seeing managers roll their eyes or get annoyed at the people they know ARE working on shelf prices is the clincher. The fact that it often works doesn't change that it is not as it is advertised. Cashiers and managers know that those who work on shelf prices are "exploiting a loophole" and I hear from them how they feel about those customers. They are always keeping an extra-close eye on them and double-checking every coupon.
I would rather be looked at as one of the honest ones 😉
See - I can disagree without being disagreeable...no need for brownies! 🙂
Ruth
I have done this deal at Acme several times and made a couple of mistakes. I knew it was my fault so I went to the customer service desk and politely told them I wanted to return the items. I got my catalinas back and did the order the second time correctly. It worked every single time, I did it correctly.
One has to be careful when choosing the products that are included in the sale and in order not to make mistake, don't scan the Acme card until the total reaches $25+, then scan the card and use other items is fillers if the total is below $10.00 in case you want to use the $10.00 catalina from a previous transaction.
To all the shoppers out there, don't make a fuss at the stores, use the right coupons and don't try to beat the system by using fraudulent coupons, copied coupons, etc, it makes it harder for other couponers. I get stories everyday from store employees about a coupon user who was rude to them or wanted to use more than one coupon per product, etc. Yesterday, one Rite Aid employee was literally scared when I pulled out my coupons but relieved after the transaction was over. He told me that he had another coupoon user who wanted to use more than one of the $5 off $25 coupon, had coupons for wrong products and proceeded to curse at him for not "forcing" in the coupons by overridding the message on the register.
I know most people on this site know how to use coupons and know how to be diplomatic but the ones who don't are really ruining it for the rest of us.
Ruth Jenkins
I don't think the Acme deal working on the shelf price is a glitch. I'm sure they monitor these sites and the sales and would have fixed the error if it was a mistake. It would probably just take a few minutes of programming. There have been many occasions when the catalinas deals worked on the shelf prices and the companies that manage the deals would have been very careful not to make a "mistake" again. I also think that the fact that there are no coupons for the "cheap" deals like the cake mixes is also intentional. They are much smarter than the rest of us and know exactly what they are doing to lure us to the store.
Erica @ Just Call Me Cheap
I have done deals on pre sale price before but usually only when I really need the items. If my catalina doesn't print I just shrug my shoulders and know that I tried playing the game and lost.
With that said, I don't think it is wrong to do the deals on pre sale prices because the stores and catalina know what is going on and choose not to fix it. If you don't get your expected coupon though, don't get upset and demand cs to give you one or return all of your stuff (a lot of stores cannot put out returned food itmes and have to throw them away- therefore your mistake will cost a lot of stores money).
I do think that if it it thought to be unenthical to go by pre sale prices then it should be unethical to to adhere to the "calculated after all manny coupons" wording. The register is allowing the catalina to still print, just like when the catalina still prints even when going by shelf prices. Both are programming "errors" so why is one not as bad as the other?
Ruth
I agree with you Erica.
However, when I return the items if I make a mistake, I explain to the customer service person that I did the deal wrong and I will add a couple more items and purchase the items again. They just give the items right back to me so I can correct my mistake. The key is to be diplomatic and polite. At a lot of these stores, when the cashiers and self checkout clerks asked me about how I got the stuff so cheap, I tell them how to do the deal and give them coupons so they can take advantage of it also. They are very thankful and next time, I go in there, they are friendly and it makes it for a pleasant shopping experience. I love to share information with anyone who asks me, these clerks are making minimum wage or a little above and they can also use the savings.
Ruth Jenkins
I noticed that a lot more people are using coupons and bringing store deals print outs after "The Krazy Coupon Lady" was a guest on the Today show, I think two weeks ago. I live in a very small town and there is a huge increase in the number of shoppers using coupons so I'm going to nearby locations to shop. I don't get upset if the shelves are clear, it is the nature of the game.
The problem of unethical people using fradulent coupons, copied coupons or just putting in blank pieces of paper in the coupon slots in a huge problem in the area where live in PA. However, these same people who do these things are the ones who steal and do other bad things, couponing is just another avenue for them to engage in unethical acts. We can't scan our own coupons at all the Acmes in the area. We still can at SuperFresh and Giant but I wonder is that will change soon.
Shannon
Acme can control this, they could Knockdown prices of every item in the catalina deal. There is obviously some logic to how they determine what gets Knocked down, so if they REALLY wanted to put a complete stop to this they could. And I agree, they obviously know that the deal works on before sale prices, but they must not be losing enough money on it to really put an end to it, or perhaps there actually is some advantage to it. And I do know that the Catalina does work if you don't scan your card, because I have forgotten and still gotten the Catalina and paid before sale prices for the items.
Ruth
After reading this post and thinking about it, some of the comments don't make sense now. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I enjoyed the discussion. However, if ethics is in question here if shoppers use the shelf price to obtain the catalina, the same thing should apply to the small print, that "Minimum Purchase required calculated after manufactures coupons". The catalinas were issued when shelf prices were used and also if manufacturer coupons were used, it is exactly the same thing. The system was printing out the catalina with the shelf prices and also after manufacturers coupons. To bring shoppers' ethics into question is a little unfair for the people who didn't point out to customer service that the total for the purchase had to be $25.00 after manufactures coupons and let their total come to $25.00 after manufactures coupons. Anyone who did then has the right to question other shoppers ethics who used the shelf prices.
This was very heated issue when I took Ethics in college, one can't pick and chose.
michelle
My family lives below what NJ calls the poverty level and have for years. I have never been able to make ends meet until I discovered shopping deals/catalinas. Now we have the ability to get food and have full cupboards with coupons and taking advantage of catalina deals.
I think it is extremely unfair to call people "greedy" for purchasing according to shelf price to earn catalinas. The store obviously knows the deal works on shelf price. They know it works on shelf price and with coupons--so how can you fault someone for taking advantage of a great deal? Especially when there are many people who can't afford to have full cupboards without the deals!
I'm really disappointed in this post. I totally agree in coupon ethics and using the right coupons for the right items--but I totally disagree that you aren't taking advantage of the system too! Intending to use coupons on a catalina deal even though the fine print says "must be $25 after coupons" isn't any worse than shopping the shelf price. It isn't shady.
This is a gray area and should be treated as such.
Leah, Peoria
Thanks Mindi for explaining more about catalinas and pricing. Even experienced couponers can learn new things. That said, I completely agree with you!! Everyone has their own internal compass.
Except that we don't have enough $ - which leads to couponing. I don't stress over $ and build good 'relationships' with clerks by following sale ads.
EX: CVS $10ecb after buy $25 P&G listed AND I had a $5 off $15 coupon.
bought Tide, although on sale the kind I use wasn't pictured. I had 3 bottles to get to $25 and a few other items, asked clerk if I would get the $10ecb if not I would put 1 bottle back. She told me prob not because it wasn't pictured but if she got approval could manual print the $10 ecb. Which she ended up doing. I didn't know they could do that. Staying true to the 'spirit' of the ads and a good relationship with clerk helped me today.
Karyn
Mindi,
I'm trying to be honest with couponing. I recently read the fine print on some coupons, and they say "Do not transfer." Any idea what that means? I'm hoping it doesn't mean you can't give coupons to friends for free.
Thanks!